The Confidence Code: Equipping Leaders with the Tools to Win - Part One
In this episode of Wealthy Sistas Radio, host Deborah Hardnett welcomes Dr. Phyllis Clark, an esteemed educator and leader, to discuss the importance of confidence and leadership for women. The conversation delves into the concept of imposter syndrome, its psychological implications, and how it affects women in various professional settings. Dr. Clark shares insights from her research on the intersectionality of women of color and imposter syndrome, providing listeners with practical tools to overcome self-doubt and build unshakable confidence. The episode also explores classic and modern behaviors associated with imposter syndrome, emphasizing the need for self-awareness and personal growth.
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Transcript
Well now this...
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:Does...
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:Make...
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:No show...
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:This...
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:Well, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to wealthy sisters radio, a division of wealthy
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:Well, just a little bit of history about us.
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:We're so excited to be back on the air.
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:Wealthy Sisters Real started in 2009 and we've been dedicating and highlighting
entrepreneurial industry leaders and change makers for over years.
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:And we're honored to host some of the most influential voices in business and leadership.
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:Our show is committed to practical knowledge and empowering insights that our listeners
can apply to create success in their business and lives, promoting prosperity,
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:and celebrating innovation.
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:Our purpose, you know, is twofold.
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:It is first to inspire and encourage our listening audience again with that practical
knowledge that you can apply and have a positive impact on your business and life.
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:And second, we must promote, acknowledge, and say thank you to the sisters for doing big
things, and our brothers too.
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:I am Deborah Hardnett, your host, and you are tuned in today's episode.
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:the confidence code, equipping leaders with the tools to win.
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:And we're so excited to have none other than Dr.
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:Phyllis Clark.
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:She is an esteemed educator, a leader who has transformed countless lives, and as the
founder and CEO of Clark Consulting and Hayes Sisters Enterprises.
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:Wow.
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:I'm telling you, she's done so much in this community.
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:through her research on the intersectionality of women of color and imposter syndrome.
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:Want to learn more about that, right?
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:She equips women and girls to gain clarity of self, build unshakable confidence and
purpose, and overflow with the courage to do what they've been called.
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:Well, without any further delay, please welcome to the show today, Ms.
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:Phyllis Rather-Gott for Billion Cards.
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:Hello Phyllis, welcome.
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:Hello, hello, how are you?
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:doing excellent.
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:It's so good to reconnect with you.
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:We have been social buddies and friends and you've supported, you know, the professional
black woman.
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:I know the Winter Summit and being a listener of wealthy sisters radio and so much more.
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:It is wonderful to reconnect.
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:I saw you the other day on LinkedIn.
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:Congratulations to you for getting that PhD and doing so, so many things that you're
handling in the community.
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:Thank you for that acknowledgement.
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:I'm honored to be one of your guests on this on the show.
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:Like you said, we connected a long time ago and I was paying attention to the women
leaders and the the entrepreneurs and the know, the folks that you have been talking to
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:for a while and they were always so inspirational.
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:And of course, I just kept that so that it could feel me for the future things that
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:I had been called to do, so here I am with you now and I couldn't be more excited.
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:I know why we just gave me chills.
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:You really did because you know, especially on radio like well just a little bit about
wealthy sisters.
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:Of course we were consistent seven years radio and took a little break little hiatus came
back back on the radio and then took another little break and you know just it just keeps
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:calling.
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:our mission that we are all about.
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:And when I connect with so many beautiful people like yourself and see the great things
that they're doing, I have to highlight them.
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:There's so much in our environment today that doesn't always encourage or inspire or give
practical knowledge.
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:And highlighting the women and men
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:who not often talk to And so, you know, I will have a conversation, gosh, you're doing
this, my gosh, you're doing that, I gotta tell the world they need to know about, you
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:know, what you're doing and to hear you say that something we share over the years has had
an impact on your life is just a blessing.
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:you know, thank you for sharing that.
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:with us.
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:definitely so.
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:So, but before we get into some of the questions I have, I always just like to ask, you
know, what were those ingredients that went into this beautiful recipe that we see of you
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:today?
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:Like, where are you from?
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:You know, the audience are nosy, right?
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:It's not really nosy, but people, like to identify and to associate because you never
know, you know, what your story, like you just shared, how it can impact others.
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:wow.
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:So I hail from the state of Arkansas.
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:and I'm a transplant to Louisville, Kentucky.
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:And so yeah, my husband and I grew up in the in the about eight blocks apart, you know,
and we were music buddies.
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:know, that entire evolution of my
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:My secondary tenure, if you will, was steeped in music and I majored in it as well at the
University of Arkansas.
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:instrument or
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:It's a child of a wonderful...
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:Yes, love cello too.
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:But you know, music teacher, orchestra teacher, I had to learn how to play the cello and
the viola and the...
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:I had to do all of it.
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:So because what happened was I came to the University of Louisville for graduate school
and ultimately I wanted to utilize my bachelor's.
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:And so I loved how my orchestra teacher trained and took care of all of us that I wanted
to get into that work too.
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:So that's where my start in education began.
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:And I've been here ever since, you even though I transitioned to over to higher ed, I'm
still well informed and connected with what happens on the secondary sector as well.
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:You know, and not just because I have two daughters that have grown up in through the
public school system, but I am just, you know, eager to stay connected to everything that
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:happens at that level as well.
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:Wow, I mean, wow, what a time to stay connected that we're in, you know, that no matter
how we look at it, it still can be an exciting time because challenges always bring
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:opportunities for people like us who have the mindset of entrepreneurial entrepreneurship
or leadership or development where you like to see something that you can go and help make
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:better.
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:So definitely, I can only imagine where your wheels and how they are turning and look
forward to see some of that fruit that's coming as a result of this time for you right
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:now.
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:You you talked about your research on this imposter syndrome.
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:man, that's huge.
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:I'm sure I could probably take it.
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:a whole nother level of my thought.
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:Well, you're probably not thinking it, but that is a major, you know, as you said, it's a
major hurdle for women and for men as well.
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:But we're talking, you know, right now about women.
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:Can you talk about when you first experienced it and how you actually overcame?
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:first of all, what is imposter syndrome?
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:Because like I said, I had my
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:my two cents of what I think it is, but I know your definition would be more detailed and
probably a lot nicer.
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:Now, what I can say about it pretty practical and simplistically is that it's just a
psychological pattern.
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:It's a way that we think about ourselves in terms of our competency.
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:And so what it does, it kind of destroys some other things within us.
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:keeps us playing small.
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:It makes us think that we're not worthy.
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:It just turns all of the things that we've ever known about ourselves upside down.
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:for the most part, there are lots of different descriptions in terms of the way the
thought leaders right now talk about it and some of the research and the scholars, because
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:everybody kind of goes through this.
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:And again, it just kind of depends on where you are, what you're doing and how you're
experiencing it.
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:So the thing that I could say about impositions are right now is that it is not you.
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:It is not you.
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:You are not shaped by it.
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:It is something that you experience.
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:And so when I look at it like that, it's like, okay, so this is a thing that is set apart
from me.
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:So you know what?
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:I need to have tools and tips to understand how to get through an experience, you know?
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:Not degrade or self-sabotage myself because I think this is me or how I'm made up or
something is wrong with me.
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:So that is the number one thing that I would love for listeners to really think about.
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:as they research or Google or buy new books and read articles about it is to see how well
they understand that it is something separate.
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:And I guess I'm thinking too of how it could manifest itself.
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:huh.
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:Yeah.
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:I've looked at different examples of that.
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:I'm thinking maybe of, we are talking about the confidence of maybe someone that may have
a borderline, maybe arrogance, maybe it might manifest in that way.
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:Or, you know, when you say, usually when you see someone behaving in a manner, it's
something that they are not appreciating about themselves.
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:Right.
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:Yeah.
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:So because what we do, the manifestations come across in four classic behaviors.
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:Okay.
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:Out of those behaviors, I'm sorry, inside of those behaviors are some of the little
different things that we can do, you know, all day long to substitute, to cover up.
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:See, because you're already feeling like a frog, right?
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:And you don't want to appear that way.
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:So you do other things knowingly or not to cover for that.
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:So a lot of our research is talking about that.
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:Let me tell you, there was some research and all of this kind of came about.
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:term was coined back in the early, early seventies, early to mid seventies.
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:these were two psychotherapists who had a study going with about 150 white women.
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:There were no women of color involved in the study.
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:A lot of that has changed since then though.
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:And what they found were that these women, despite their
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:accomplishments despite their attributions and all these other commendations, they still
saw themselves as frauds.
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:This goes back to stuff that was triggered in childhood and all sorts of other things.
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:so out of that study came four what we call now the classic behaviors.
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:so one, you're going to be like, yeah, I know that one.
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:I'm ready.
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:got my pen.
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:I'm ready.
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:I'm taking notes.
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:anxiety was a big one.
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:And so inside of it, you know, there's a whole list, laundry list of things that
constitute anxiety, right?
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:Fears being number one.
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:You know, this other one around authenticity.
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:Now, I, the reason.
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:Is that like number two, authenticity?
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:It's the order in which I'm speaking them.
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:So this was number two, but they come in any certain order.
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:another classic behavior then is authenticity.
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:Okay.
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:Let me just tell you before I get to three and four, this really came about for me because
I felt like I was experiencing something and I just got tired of beating myself up.
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:I'm like, what is this that I am going through?
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:So despite all the accomplishments, right?
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:there was still something that just kept gnawing at me.
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:And that is actually what made me want to go into a PhD program to research it because I
wanted to see how it affects folks in graduate schools, particularly black women.
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:And so that's what I did in my study.
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:We can circle back to that.
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:But number two around authenticity is like, need to fake it till you make it.
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:You need to pretend.
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:need to do...
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:all these other things because you don't feel authentic.
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:So it plays out, you know, in ways like that.
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:Number three, now, you know what?
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:This one is really important to me.
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:And I think a lot of people spend time here and they don't know it.
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:And this is around hard work.
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:Because when you first hear hard work, you're like, yeah, I'm down for hard work.
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:I work hard, you know, every day.
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:I stay busy.
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:hard work in the sense of overcompensation.
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:It's a cycle that we get into and it's almost like you can visualize it as one of the, you
know how the, you had mice in the little traps, running around.
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:Look, they work.
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:That real boy.
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:They are working.
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:They are done.
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:You know, but what cause?
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:And when will it end?
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:And so we do, start to dig all these holes of overwork to say, is how we're getting
through this.
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:This is how we're working, but we're just spinning our wheels.
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:what is it?
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:that.
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:Yes, and it causes an amazing amount of stress.
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:we feel it, see it, or what.
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:And number four is being charismatic.
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:And charismatic is another cool term and thing that you would think that, oh yeah, I have
charisma.
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:But it's when we try to fool people, when we try to overplay who we are.
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:in this particular role or work.
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:It's things like that.
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:When we start to not be who we're called to be in these moments, it's like we're trying to
cover up because we already feel a certain way about whatever it is.
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:And so all of these things bring on certain cycles.
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:And when you experience them and you don't know what to do, then we move into these types
of behaviors, right?
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:And it can come out kind of like what you said.
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:you know, already.
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:But yeah, but guess what?
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:I told you those were classic behaviors.
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:Now, how it's showing up in the 21st century, you know, you have those classic behaviors
in the face, but then there are some additional, now we have some new thought leaders and
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:researchers talking about this now.
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:The first person that I point to is Dr.
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:Young.
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:So again, Dr.
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:Valerie Young.
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:He is the foremost thought leader.
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:There are some other researchers I love and I'll mention their names in a moment.
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:But what's important to me about what she says, let me tell you what these five, now she
has five types of imposters that she likes to let people know about.
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:And you've heard all of these, but now I want people to start thinking about would they
feel this way when they're thinking this way that you can attribute it maybe to imposter
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:syndrome.
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:So think about this, you're gonna hear this and be like, yep.
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:How about the perfectionist?
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:goodness.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Yeah.
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:Yes.
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:Yes.
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:Yes.
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:Yes.
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:And like you have to have, you know, not 100, but 101, you know, it's like your mind is
constantly trying to, and it's stifling us, right?
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:It's keeping you from moving forward or from thinking big or just, you know, seeing the
vision and marching towards it because you're so caught up in being perfect, right?
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:And everything has to be perfect before like we say like before you launch.
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:Yes, we launch a business so you know you gotta have have all the answers and everything
has be all in place and and and you're striving like I said for perfection like have to
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:you know this has to be my goodness I know I know that yeah.
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:mean, that eats, that eats people alive.
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:And then, I lived in the space, maybe not perfection wasn't mine.
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:There are some others here that I'm going to, you know, but so many of us are going
through this day in and day out.
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:And so what I like to help women understand through thought partnership and mentorship is
that we are who we are.
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:And it's about strengthening your assets, not thinking about yourself through a deficit
mindset.
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:And I did that for a long time.
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:And it just kind of brought on so much self-sabotage, which is actually another one, one
of these new five types of the behaviors now.
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:So in fact, let me scoot on down to that one.
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:It's, know, when you thinking about, you know, I have this workshop I put together from
self-doubt to self-belief.
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:a large part of my trap was self-sabotage.
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:self-sabotaging myself, you know, because of these five behaviors.
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:Let me go ahead and get through them.
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:The expert, we've got a lot of folks who want to be experts out there, but not realizing
that this is from a point of the imposter space.
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:You know, like folks who can fly on their own.
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:I did a lot of this.
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:I got this.
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:I can work in isolation.
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:I'm good.
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:you know, it's, talk ourselves into,
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:operating in this way and then when things don't manifest then there you go.
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:here's another good one the natural genius the natural genius
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:EEEE
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:Yeah.
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:And then, you know, because they spend a lot of time struggling to master different
subjects, right?
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:And skills and, you know, all these things that you just have to figure out.
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:And again, most doing it through isolation and so forth.
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:And then this last one's going to get you, you know about this one, how we put our super
women capes on and it's, she calls it the superhuman.
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:Yeah.
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:We go above.
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:above and beyond, above and beyond.
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:Or we've got to put our S on our chest.
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:And yeah, I did that for decades.
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:I loved being able to be that one, to come and save the day, and put your fires and all
the things all the time.
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:we're talking about over 30 years, up to 31 now for me.
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:being in the education sector and throughout this.
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:Chirrup,
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:you
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:you
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:The opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of our hosts, staff, or
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