Life After 8A Graduation: Thriving in Government Contracting Without Set-Asides
In this episode of Wealthy Sistas Radio, the host Deborah Hardnett, welcomes Tonya Saunders, a mentor and expert in federal contracting. They discuss the significance of the 8A program for small businesses, the challenges faced after graduation from the program, and the role of Mid-Tier Advocacy in supporting businesses. The conversation also highlights upcoming events aimed at fostering networking and growth opportunities for business owners, along with encouraging words for those facing challenges in their entrepreneurial journey.
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Transcript
We're now listening to Wealthy Sisters Radio Show We're now listening to Wealthy Sisters
Radio
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:Yes, indeed.
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:We are back and super excited to say hello to our awesome audience.
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:It's been a while, but this is 2025 and Wealthy Sisters is back and alive.
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:You know it.
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:Okay, let me stop.
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:It is such a pleasure to have everybody back.
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:know, wealthy sisters radio has been around since 2009.
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:my, we have a lot of content that's available for you.
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:You can go to wealthy sisters radio.com.
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:Want to thank our sponsors, of course, brought to you by the Hartford group, F O C C
Institute and Miss Organic.
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:All right.
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:Well, today's show is going to be not just because it's our
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:a new show coming back.
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:But it is a special, special guest that I am super excited to introduce to everyone today
or reintroduce, I say.
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:She's no stranger to Wealthy Sisters Radio.
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:She is a mentor of mine.
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:She is as someone that I have so much respect for.
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:She's a pioneer there in the DC area.
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:And we're talking today about
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:life after 8A graduation.
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:Okay?
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:So let me without any further delay bring to the show today, Ms.
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:Tanya Saunders, who is the principal of Washington Premier and the founder of Mid-Tier
Advocacy.
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:Welcome Tanya.
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:Thank thank you.
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:What a wonderful day and time to just share with you and be with you.
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:You are indeed a dear friend and I will always remember you.
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:So thank you so much.
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:I just want to say good afternoon to all of your listeners and again.
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:Thank you, Debra, for your kind introduction and for allowing me this time to share some
insights with your audience today.
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:Yes.
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:We know we are in interesting times, challenging for some and possibly opportunities for
others.
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:So as we delve into the 8-8 program, which for those who are not federal contractors, it
is a designated category for federal.
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:contractors who are disenfranchised or disadvantaged, if you will.
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:It's essential to appreciate the significance, first and foremost, of these initiatives,
the AIDA program, the women-owned small business programs, the service-disabled,
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:veteran-owned small business programs, as well as HUBZone and under other categories, DBEs
and MBEs.
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:These initiatives, these federal initiatives, started as a way of helping to level the
playing field and creating opportunities for down to earth businesses across the nation.
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:The 8A Business Development Program by way of background, as some of you may know, was
specifically designed to assist small disadvantaged business in navigating the federal
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:contracting landscape.
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:Through the program,
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:all
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:Wow.
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:That mentorship and you know, I appreciate you sharing the background on this because a
lot of times we have heard or maybe have seen 8A, you know, or the women owned someone may
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:have visited someone's site and seen veteran owned.
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:Can you, before we get further into this, because I know some people might be saying,
okay, who is she and how can she tell us about this?
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:Can you give us, as we like to say, your
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:degree, your background, the recipe that went into what we see today, how you can qualify,
you are qualified to talk about our topic today.
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:share and I won't belabor my background which is rather long.
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:I've been on for a while.
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:My background started on Capitol Hill years ago.
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:I worked in the United States Senate.
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:Primarily my background is in legislative policy, the political arena as well.
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:My company Washington Premier Group is in fact a consulting firm.
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:more or less registered as a lobbying shop.
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:And what we do at Washington Premier Group is represent clients on legislative issues.
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:I've worked with major corporations and small businesses throughout the years.
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:Some major corporations for your Atlanta audience include Delta Airlines.
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:Others in the healthcare arena would include Puerto Rico Hospital Association.
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:Moving forward through time, I've also been a federally registered agent, foreign agent
for Panama.
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:Just a number of entities that I've worked with and worked on their behalf, again, before
Congress.
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:Now, what I am currently doing, I founded an organization called Mid-Tier Advocacy.
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:It is an organization of small and mid-size companies.
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:Primarily they're beyond their small size standards.
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:And they are looking at growth strategies.
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:Once you get to the size outside of the small business size, you're sort of in no man's
land.
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:We call it too big to be small, or too small to be big.
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:But the problem is you have to then compete not with like-sized companies, but those that
are
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:very large companies.
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:For example, small business can't exceed their size standards, say 30, 35 million.
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:Well, you're now in competition with the $45 billion integrate, like Northrop Grumman and
Rayvion and some of the other names.
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:I've heard that someone, let's say, like you said, Northrop Grumman, they would have 600,
a department full of 600 proposal writers versus someone in this category that you're
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:talking about who may have five proposal writers.
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:Is that accurate?
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:We have shared those dynamics with our congressional members of Congress to suggest to
them that given those challenges, it makes it very difficult to compete on a number of
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:proposals.
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:If you have 600 people writing proposals, you can pump out proposals every hour.
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:You might be able to get two or three.
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:And those proposals are found or these are on a website or someone may find out about an
opportunity within a government agency.
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:What are those proposals coming from?
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:proposals and what a team would then do based on their core capabilities they would
identify whether or not that particular RFP or in some cases sources sought which
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:basically means the government's looking to see who might be able to address some of the
needs that they have Once that decision is made then that person that company rather would
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:put together a team from
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:you know, internally, sometimes they have to hire out, if you're small, to write to the
RFP, right, to the request for proposal.
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:And basically, you're looking at the document, you're going through it very carefully,
you're addressing all of the requirements the government has, and then you submit it on
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:time to the office that's making the request.
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:Okay, and that takes time.
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:If one person, two, three, four, five individuals are doing that, let's say if you gave
each of them a role, that still does not compare to some Booz Allen's 600, Department of
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:600 proposal writers.
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:You are
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:So if you're again, by way of scale, if you're smaller, you have to be very careful about
how much money you are utilizing in order to try to win a company in order to be able to
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:continue your business model.
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:I know a lot of details on the contracting side, but I wanted to just share based on your
question, Deborah, in terms of how the process works.
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:yes, yes, so that we could have a good visual for those who, because I know there are
quite a few people who I've just had a conversation planning for the new year, projecting
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:what their plans are for their business.
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:And several have mentioned that they want to be able to make this a part of their scope of
business.
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:I will leave them with as they make their determination on whether federal contracting is
actually for them is to know that it typically takes 18 months in order to win one
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:contract.
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:A very long process in respect to the win.
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:There's a lot of competition and if you're a new entrant, I highly recommend that you gain
as much in source
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:resources internally as you're able to through the SBA as well as your local accelerator
programs which work with SBA.
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:They help startups understand the ropes and understand all that you're going to need.
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:That's great, that's great.
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:And so you were talking about the different strategies here for the mid-size.
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:And let's, I guess, move more into the transition.
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:What happens when someone graduates from an 8A?
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:Okay, well, once we understand why the 8A program began and what the function is, you have
nine years in the program.
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:During that time, the navigating the challenges, that is building up your opportunities,
8A programs, a lot of people associate with SoulSource, and that is an opportunity within
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:the program, but there are other opportunities.
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:Teaming with more mature companies or teaming with other small businesses, building your
relationships within the community.
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:And let's say you're now looking at that end of your time frame.
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:Once you transition, that can also help present very unique opportunities, but also some
challenges because now you're no longer in the program for the set-asides, which may
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:actually afforded you.
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:So once you're out, those set-asides, like I mentioned before, are no longer applicable to
you.
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:However, if you came with other AAs or other...
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:companies you can still work in respect to some of those same programs you just won't be
the prime and I know I'm again using contracting terms but that still means that you would
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:still have work but it just wouldn't be that you would be in the category to get work set
aside for your business as an 8a
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:So someone having an 8A, they've graduated, and you're saying that if they partner or
teamed with someone else who's still in the program, they won't be considered the main or
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:the prime, using the correct term there, but they can still find work in that.
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:OK.
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:OK.
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:where the primary would get 51%, you get 49%.
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:And I'm always told me 49 is
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:right because I guess the advantage for that person that has graduated That would not be
the prime but would be the subprime With the new prime maybe their experience I would
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:imagine nine years of experience would make a big difference to that person So that's a
win-win it would see to me
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:So again, the challenge for the graduated 8As and small business in total that have gone
beyond their size standard is simple.
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:You're now in a full and open competition where you have to compete with much larger
companies.
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:Wow.
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:So, so when you see and I know now mid-tier advocacy is celebrating, is it 12 or 13 years
now?
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:my gosh.
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:I lost three years.
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:It seemed like we just celebrated.
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:We're literally, I lost five.
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:It seemed like we were just celebrating the 10th year.
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:That's right.
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:Well, it was the 10th year and that was, I believe, right before COVID started.
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:But our organization actually began as a coalition in 2010.
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:It became a non-profit organization a couple of years or so later.
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:But we've been around since 2010.
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:And can you share a little bit more about the importance of mid-tier advocacy to someone
who maybe has graduated or they see maybe a few years they have to go, how they need to
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:prepare to exit the program?
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:Yes, I'm happy to, Deborah.
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:We have, through our advocacy, and that's what we are, we are an advocacy organization.
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:We try to help educate members on Capitol Hill.
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:We bring together federal agency procurement officials and others to discuss how certain
policies can be changed to support the growth of the small business.
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:We have worked.
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:over the years and have been successful at getting some legislation that's been
significant to small business such as the Small Business Runway Extension Act which allows
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:the small business to remain small for at least another five years.
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:We've also worked to establish the
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:updating of the NAICS codes that was through the 2010 Small Business Jobs Act.
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:We also work with GAO and a number of other outside interests who have conducted surveys
to determine what legislation might be useful in this space.
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:The real thing I want to
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:folks to also take away is the fact that we do business with each other within
mid-traffic.
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:So if you're a small business and you're looking for a very successful larger small or
mid-sized company that is well established, whether it's in civilian agencies, DOD,
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:working on a supplier, for example.
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:We have those companies as members of our board, our CEO round table, and our general
membership.
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:And when we come together, whether it be virtually or in person, that's an opportunity for
you to get to know other businesses, to let them know about your capabilities, where you
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:can hopefully get an opportunity to team up.
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:See, everybody thinks, I've got to go out and team up with a very large company in order
to.
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:You know
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:opportunity to build a relationship with that company it is so much greater.
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:mean how often will you meet the head of and I'm not bashing Northrop I'm just using it
because it's well-known name but how often do you really get to meet the president or CEO
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:of Northrop?
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:Right.
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:I'm just asking.
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:Right, right.
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:That is so true.
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:And when you talk about the additional five years, this is just to go back, I mean, that's
exciting.
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:Was that added on to the nine or was it four before?
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:small business.
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:That's not a specific area for 8A.
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:Okay, awesome.
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:That's awesome.
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:That's awesome.
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:And another thing for all small business that we led the charge on was prompt pay.
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:you want to be paid on time.
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:With a small business, don't necessarily have the bandwidth to wait nine days, six months,
or how long it takes for the prime to get around to pay you.
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:Prompt pay ensures that, one, the government pays the primes quicker, and the prime has to
pay you quicker.
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:Okay, okay, that's good.
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:So when this 15, okay, you know, we want to know what's quicker because then again, that
could be interpreted to something else.
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:You knew it.
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:Wow.
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:Wow.
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:And so you talk about being able to meet other CEOs.
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:That's a big deal to partner and team and the events that mid-tier advocacy hosts.
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:Hey, I can't think of a better time to talk about this event that's coming up in March.
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:Thank you, yes, yes.
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:summit for CEOs and it's exclusive for CEOs.
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:We do have requirement because we are really ramping up the mid-tier category of
businesses.
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:So we're reaching out to all of you who may be in that space or getting ready to graduate
from your 8A program if you're in the 8A program.
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:We are going to have a summit on March 25th
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:the Tower Club located in Tyson's Corner, Leesburg, Virginia.
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:The event will begin around 12 noon.
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:We have a lot of industry experts who have underwritten this event and who will be there
to provide their experience with working on the things that matter the most to.
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:Business when I say business we're talking about getting down to business from the
financial side wealth management side to your back office management side IT that's
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:available AI that's available to help you do your business more effectively more
efficiently and save costs so this is really focused on that CEO who
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:At other times maybe doesn't get to be in a room full of CEOs.
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:So this is your chance to come out and be a part of the event.
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:We're doing a Hill Day, Capitol Hill, the following day where we're going to take some of
those issues that I shared with you because we are an advocacy group.
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:That is what we do.
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:We're going to go to the Hill and hold a briefing for members of Congress.
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:A lot of them are new to the House Small Business Committee and the Senate.
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:small business committee and we're going to talk about some of the challenges that are
coming up and have already appeared.
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:So we will have a laundry list of things we want to talk about.
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:That is exciting.
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:So this not only is giving people an opportunity or those CEOs an opportunity to come and
learn and but to meet others as you said CEOs and to to begin building relationships as
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:well.
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:I would imagine would come from them.
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:Absolutely, that's the whole point.
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:And not just with them, but with some major sponsors, Bank of America, Seville's,
Catapult, High Tech Services.
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:There are a host of others, GovCon Pay, Jamis, all of these fine companies are going to be
there.
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:We're also having an awards dinner later that evening honoring
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:naval veterans with an organization called the Honor Foundation.
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:So it's going to be a really good time and it's at a very affordable cost for folks.
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:Check us out on the website at midtier.org.
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:Awesome awesome.
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:Well tonya saunders the principal of washington premier group Founder of mid-tier
advocacy.
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:It has been an extreme pleasure hosting you today Thank you so much for all of the great
information you've shared with our listening audience What would you like to leave them
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:with?
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:one thought for those business owners that can keep them in the game because you know
sometimes
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:people are at the point of they might feel discouraged, might feel like they want to give
up, like this is too big because I know people don't think that business owners feel that
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:way, that they see on the outside they have 20 employees, 50 employees, 100 employees, but
they don't know the challenges that someone might be facing.
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:What
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:words of encouragement which you leave with them today as we encourage them to definitely
to attend the event but also to make sure that they stay in the fight.
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:as well just to depart or impart some words as I depart and that is don't give up on your
business.
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:Make yourself known to people that matter in your community to include your
representatives.
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:They do need to know you exist and they also need to know how well you're doing.
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:and whatever challenges you may have.
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:So I always say policy impacts everything we do.
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:And sometimes policy is made when no one is looking and when no one knows about you.
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:So make yourself known.
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:All right, well you heard it from none other than Tonya Saunders.
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:Thank you so much.
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:you
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:You deserve a standing ovation.
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:Yes indeed.
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:And tell Logan thank you so much for not barking the whole show.
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:you
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:No, no, it is great.
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:I love it.
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:It's where we are today.
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:It's human.
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:It's real.
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:Thank you.
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:Thank you so much.
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:All right.
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:All right.
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:And I want to say thank you so much to our audience for tuning in today.
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:Stay tuned for next week.
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:As we said, we're back.
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:We have another exciting guest next week.
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:Well, I cannot wait for you all to hear from Mr.
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:Victor.
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:Okay, y'all, I'm telling you, you do not want to miss next week's show.
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:So we look forward to seeing you there.
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:Again, you've been tuned in to Wealthy Sisters Radio.
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:The opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of our host staff or
partners of Wealthy Sisters.
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:video.
